Angelina Jolie Talks to Elif Shafak About Why Men Need to Be Engaged in the Fight for Women’s Rights


Turkish residents have taken to the streets to protest their authorities’s choice to withdraw from the European treaty on violence in opposition to girls and home violence, the Istanbul Conference. As its title suggests, this human rights treaty was championed by Turkey when it was first created a decade in the past. It requires governments to legislate in opposition to—and prosecute—violence in opposition to girls and women, together with home violence, rape in marriage and feminine genital mutilation. The Turkish authorities claimed that the treaty was getting used to “normalize homosexuality” and undermine Turkish household values. Critics say that is an try by the federal government to extend its standing with conservative allies on the expense of girls and minorities. I spoke to the Turkish-born novelist and thinker Elif Shafak about her views on the disaster. She and I first started talking final 12 months, firstly of the pandemic, drawn collectively by a shared concentrate on refugee points. I reached out once more after this newest information. We spoke in regards to the women and men preventing for Turkey’s choice to be overturned, and what it tells us in regards to the state of girls’s rights globally. “We’re at a crossroads”, she informed me. “Many ladies are demanding equality, demanding justice. They wish to construct their very own lives, construct a greater future for his or her youngsters. However this shift in energy comes with a harmful backlash.”

I started by asking Elif in regards to the Turkish authorities’s choice to withdraw from the treaty, and what it means for ladies’s rights in her motherland.

Shafak: I believe it is a main setback, which could have catastrophic penalties for ladies, for youngsters, and for the LGBTQ neighborhood. The Istanbul Conference is essentially the most progressive worldwide treaty we now have that protects anybody who’s weak to violence. It offers authorized networks, it opens shelters, it raises consciousness, it protects victims and prevents violence—whether it is applied. Turkey was the primary nation to signal and ratify this treaty, however now it’s abandoning it. It breaks my coronary heart, as a result of it’s taking place at a second when femicide circumstances are rising. There was already an escalation in home violence circumstances in Turkey. At a time when girls wanted safety essentially the most, the federal government is doing the precise reverse.

What message does it ship to a younger girl who is perhaps experiencing violence in her own residence? Pulling out of the Conference has a double message. You might be telling girls that their lives usually are not vital. And you’re telling perpetrators that their crimes might be legitimized. It emboldens perpetrators of violence.

Rollbacks of girls’s rights are sometimes justified by these accountable as a protection of household values. As if it’s higher for violence to stay behind closed doorways. What’s your reply to this? It’s not a personal difficulty if somebody is harm, if somebody is struggling abuse. It can not keep behind 4 partitions. We have to break these partitions of silence. Nobody could be comfortable in a home the place there may be abuse, the place there’s a violence. Then there are these extremely problematic legal guidelines in lots of international locations which cut back the sentences given to rapists, ought to they comply with marry their victims, as if they’re doing their victims a favor.

Are you able to give an instance? One case instantly involves thoughts—the trial began not too long ago in Turkey. A younger Kurdish girls was raped by her husband’s brother. She was courageous, she refused to be silent about it. She needed to take the perpetrator to court docket, however in court docket she was not given a Kurdish-speaking interpreter. She couldn’t inform her personal story. After which her husband got here and he killed her, as a result of she was ruining the household’s honor. This says a lot in regards to the intersectional layers of oppression, for minority girls, girls with disabilities, transgender girls, indigenous girls. The entire system favors the perpetrators and punishes the victims over and time and again.

It’s so horrifying. And it’s is occurring proper now. We have to discuss all this louder and louder as a result of the pandemic made all the pieces worse. It elevated home violence all internationally. In lots of international locations after we take a look at the variety of individuals calling helplines, these calls have elevated five-fold. Girls and women have been in shut environments with their abusers. This has occurred all through the pandemic. And we have to discuss in regards to the catastrophic financial penalties of the pandemic for ladies as nicely. I believe we’re dropping many years of progress, by way of girls’s rights, equality. A long time of progress is gone.

There are such a lot of good males around the globe, who struggle to defend girls. In my work with refugees, I meet males who’ve misplaced all the pieces and risked their lives to guard others. How can we encourage that stunning power, moderately than the harmful power—the oppressive power? Patriarchy makes girls sad, however it makes males sad too. Males can’t be comfortable in a society constructed on inequality and discrimination—particularly younger males who don’t conform to the given description of masculinity. Males have to be engaged on this dialog.

Generally it’s onerous to not be overwhelmed. What retains me going is considering that we’re within the struggle. If we glance to historical past, there will need to have been occasions when all the pieces appeared misplaced. So we simply need to double down, and hold pushing. We’re at a crossroads. Many ladies are demanding equality, demanding justice. They wish to construct their very own lives, construct a greater future for his or her youngsters. However this shift in energy comes with a harmful backlash. When international locations slide backwards into nationalism, into tribalism and isolationism, into populism or authoritarianism or non secular fundamentalism, we at all times see an increase in sexism and homophobia. Whether or not you’re in America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Turkey, the Center East, wherever we’re, we will slide backwards.

One of many issues I’ve realized from the refugees I’ve met around the globe is how related primary human struggles are and that our societies and our rights are literally fairly fragile. How do you see it? We’re so interconnected. The pandemic has proven that. Whether or not it’s the opportunity of one other pandemic, ecological disaster, cyberterrorism or a monetary disaster, each main difficulty reveals that we’re interconnected. By creating imaginary partitions round us, we’re not going to be safer. Democracy is just not strong. It’s a very delicate ecosystem of checks and balances. The poll field in itself is just not sufficient to maintain a democracy. Many international locations which aren’t democracies maintain elections. Turkey has comparatively common elections, Turkey is just not a democracy. Russia has elections, Russia is just not a democracy. We want rule of legislation, checks and balances, freedom of speech, free media. And ladies’s rights. With all of those rights we will discuss democracy. In any other case we’re simply speaking about majoritarianism. And from majoritarianism to authoritarianism is a really quick slide backwards. It could occur very quick.

That interconnection additionally means we’re in a position to see one another extra, and join extra, internationally. It’s more durable to maintain us aside. As human beings, we hardly ever study something from sameness. We study from variations. We’re challenged by variations. It actually issues. It’s not a coincidence that societies the place democracy is misplaced are societies the place there isn’t any appreciation of range, the place if you’re deemed to be totally different life goes to be tough. My final novel was impressed by a spot in Istanbul known as the cemetery of the companionless. Not like different graveyards there aren’t any flowers, no guests, no names engraved on marble tombstones—simply wood posts, and placards with numbers scribbled. It’s a place the place precise human beings are became numbers. The general public who’re buried there have been shunned. My intuition as a author was to attempt to take at the least a kind of numbers, and to reverse the method. I believe that could be a massive a part of our wrestle—to withstand that strategy of dehumanization.

Are you nervous by the intent we see amongst politicians and a few others to attempt to dehumanize refugees particularly? Phrases matter. All the things else comes later. It doesn’t begin with focus camps, it begins with phrases. How we discuss in regards to the ‘different’ issues. Phrases like ‘infestation’, ‘vermin’, ‘air pollution’—none of that’s harmless. We have to educate ourselves in addition to one another. Generally we’d use sure phrases within the fallacious manner, however we must always have the ability to study from one another. I discover it crucial that we’re conscious of how we make use of phrases, how we select phrases, particularly after we are speaking about individuals who appear to be totally different to us.

I hope there might be extra dialogue, amongst younger individuals and previous individuals, making an attempt to talk up, to boost one another up. We’re in a struggle, and we have to be careful for one another. We’re. We began speaking about Turkey. Girls have been out on the streets. They’ve been wonderful, remarkably courageous. However there additionally was this picture of a younger man with a banner saying ‘actual males are feminists’. I cannot overlook that. It gave me a lot hope. Now we have allies, all internationally. It is rather vital that we hear one another’s voices.





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